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Post Info TOPIC: Learning to offer Self Assessment


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Learning to offer Self Assessment


Can anybody tell me what is the best/quickest/easiest way of learning to offer Self Assessment? I have tried to find the information and it looks like AAT level 4 is a possibility, but would I be able to jump onto that course after finishing IAB level 3? It looks like ICB do something along those lines, but I'm not sure if it is the qualification required. It's all rather confusing.

Thanks in advance.



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Lisa



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Hi Lisa
Quickest way - just do the self assessments!wink But of course then that presents its own problems in the long run, so no of course Im not advocating that.

Best and easiest - get the tax exams under your belt, not just AAT or whatever.

Clients want tax advice. So many people doing this job cannot actually give it!

Did you try the skills check on the AAT site that I mentioned in one of your other posts? Think I still owe you some information from one of those posts but you didnt remind me - so I hope you located it.

Check the AAT site for the exemptions you will get from passing the IAB exams as that with the skills check will determine that course of option.

Also - worth a look at the link embedded in another post by Shaunhttp://forum.bookkeepers.network/t63923338/which-one-now/



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Joanne McCormick

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Hi Lisa

Doing the SA is the easier part all you are doing is copying information onto a form, the hard part is compiling all the correct information

As Joanne says the tax exams are the best way forwards



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Doug

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Thanks Joanne,

No, I didn't remind you because I didn't want to put you out... but if you have the info, it would be much appreciated. I didn't know you could just do other peoples self assessments without a formal qualification? I wouldn't do that anyway because I used to do my own and felt like I was fudging it!

Ideally I would like to be able to offer Bookkeeping, Self Assessments and Payroll. I passed all my IAB levels, so I'm trying to find my way to getting the other two done.

Thanks

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Lisa



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Thanks Artois... I don't know how to get started on the Tax Exams.



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Lisa



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Mrs_Jamo wrote:

Thanks Artois... I don't know how to get started on the Tax Exams.


Hi Lisa

Artois is just my stage name, my name is Doug

I can only advise on the what I have done, I completed AAT and took the 2 tax modules as my optional units using the self study route which involved buying the study books and then booking my exam whenever I was ready as an external student.

This was quite a while ago and was using the AQ2013 syllabus which has changed now, what you could do then was to become a student of the AAT which would enable you so sit the exams, buy the Personal Tax and Business Tax study material (I used Osborne) and then sit the exams, that way you would not get the certificate for passing Level 4 but at least you would have learnt and passed the 2 Tax units.

Might be worth giving AAT a ring to see if it is still possible to do this, as I say I did the whole level but there was nothing to stop me just doing the 2 optional units if I chose to

Good luck



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Doug

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That's very interesting Doug, I will look into that. Thank you

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Lisa



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To offer self assessments you need to know how to put the accounts together to provide them.

Yes Doug - but what about the two exams for putting together financial statements - one at level 3 (if I recall) and one at level 4?

I was thinking you should do AAT then ATT (or CTA/CIOT)

You can still self study the AAT, lots of folk do.

Will find that resource and pop it on.

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Joanne McCormick

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



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Sorry Doug just realised i mis-read what you put and clearly didnt remember that you had done the whole AAT malarky!

See what I mean - DOH day!!

Lisa
Here are the links with the course ifno - a lot of info, but if you whiz down each level you will find the exact information in the latter parts. Ive enclosed one for each level and the links where to find them so you can get an update if you ever need it. Included level 2 in case someone else is looking.

Level 2
www.aat.org.uk/find-a-course/aat-accounting-courses/foundation-certificate-in-accounting
www.aat.org.uk/prod/s3fs-public/assets/Foundation-Certificate-Accounting-Level-2-Qualification-Specification-v3-0.pdf

Level 3
www.aat.org.uk/find-a-course/aat-accounting-courses/advanced-diploma-in-accounting
www.aat.org.uk/system/files/study_resources/Advanced-Diploma-Accounting-Level-3-Qualification-Specification-v3.4.pdf

Level 4
www.aat.org.uk/find-a-course/aat-accounting-courses/professional-diploma-in-accounting
www.aat.org.uk/prod/s3fs-public/assets/Professional-Diploma-Qualification-Specification-V4.0_0.pdf

Also enclosed the skillscheck link
www.aat.org.uk/aat-qualifications-and-courses/need-help-choosing-a-qualification/aat-skillcheck

Plus the exemptions checker
aat.typeform.com/to/Y79VLU

if you can find your way round the AAT website then you are part way there for finding your way round the 'real' HMRC site (not that naff dumbed down adn misleading site that is Gov.UK). Plus the light reading is good practice for reading the Income Tax Act


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Joanne McCormick

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



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Hi Lisa,

I am surprised that IAB don't offer this qualification for their members (I'm sure they used to) as it would definitely be one that would benefit them. An ICB course would be a good option, with just one course providing all the information you need for the self-assessment submission. I say that assuming your IAB qualification covered the underpinning principles of the completion of sole trader and partnership accounts and not just the computerised route.

Studying the course would provide you with the knowledge and you would have to decide whether you'd also like to sit the final exam, which would also require you to join ICB via their exemption process.

Good luck with whatever route you take.



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Brian McVean

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email: brian@idealschools.co.uk

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Joanne thank you so much for all that information, I am very grateful for your help as always.

Brian, I wish that the IAB did offer this qualification, it would have been easier for me to continue down the line from which I had started and become accustomed to. I did see the ICB course when I was scouting around online, and I am contemplating it.

Studying is an expensive sport in both time and money, and unfortunately, like many people I have little of either!



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Lisa



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Brian McVean wrote:

An ICB course would be a good option, with just one course providing all the informationyou need for the self-assessment submission.


Are you saying this is equivalent to what you would learn at ATT, CTA or CiOT Brian?

Over egging it a bit.



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Joanne McCormick

Fallows Hall Ltd

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Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



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Bookkeeping stops at trial balance.

Anything beyond trial balance is accountancy.

IAB and ICB are bookkeeping qualifications.

AAT is the lowest level of accountancy qualification.

Self assessments to a certain extent can be treated as a bookkeeping task in that such requires a knowledge of how to prepare a standard document. However, as indicated earlier by both Doug and Joanne, self assessments are one thing but knowing how to prepare the accounts required to prepare the self assessment from is quite something else built from either an accountancy qualification or hard earned experience (or preferably both).

I'm with the others and would suggest AAT.

kindest regards,

Shaun.





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Shaun

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Of course the other element as Shaun mentions is experience. So I would suggest a job with a practice, but not one too close to where you want to set yours up as you dont want the contract clauses to prevent you from building your own business once you have the necessary skills

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Joanne McCormick

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



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Hi Lisa, of course, your time and budget requirements must be a main consideration. Whether you self study via textbook or take a structured, supported course, you have to weigh up your own investment against the possible revenue streams available later.


Joanne, I've checked my post again and I made no mention of those organisations. So, no is the answer to your question.

Shaun, going by your logic, under the heading of a bookkeepers network, this forum should discuss nothing more advanced than Trial Balance. However, I see headings for payroll, taxation, etc. Of course I don't think BKN should have that restriction and neither should ICB or IAB. Anyone who has looked at the ICB syllabus, or completed their exams knows how comprehensive the coverage and testing is. Interesting point to note is that the current BKN Most Innovative Accounting Firm offers bookkeeping & taxation services, including the YE submissions for sole traders, partnerships & micro entities under FRS105. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that he's doing rather well and providing a first class service. He's also fully trained and qualified under the umbrella of ICB. Many could take inspiration from what he's achieved.



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Brian McVean

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email: brian@idealschools.co.uk

Tel: 0800 028 1404 or 0141 248 5200

Ideal Schools - BKN Training Provider of the Year 2011, 2012 & 2013

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Master Book-keeper

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Brian McVean wrote:

Interesting point to note is that the current BKN Most Innovative Accounting Firm offers bookkeeping & taxation services, including the YE submissions for sole traders, partnerships & micro entities under FRS105. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that he's doing rather well and providing a first class service. He's also fully trained and qualified under the umbrella of ICB. Many could take inspiration from what he's achieved.


Not sure what your point is there Brian. I also offer the same and am qualified by experience. I was runner up last year.

The current Bookkeeper of the Year for the last 3 years is also QBE, probably with a wealth of knowledge that surpasses the training provided by ICB and AIB.



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John

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Leger wrote:
Brian McVean wrote:

Interesting point to note is that the current BKN Most Innovative Accounting Firm offers bookkeeping & taxation services, including the YE submissions for sole traders, partnerships & micro entities under FRS105. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that he's doing rather well and providing a first class service. He's also fully trained and qualified under the umbrella of ICB. Many could take inspiration from what he's achieved.


Not sure what your point is there Brian. I also offer the same and am qualified by experience. I was runner up last year.

The current Bookkeeper of the Year for the last 3 years is also QBE, probably with a wealth of knowledge that surpasses the training provided by ICB and AIB.


I've PM'd you John, but just to clarify, the above was to highlight the fact that ICB qualifications go far beyond TB and this was recognised via the BKN Awards. In no way was this meant to detract from any award or professional achievements by any forum contributor.



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Kind Regards

Brian McVean

www.idealschools.co.uk

email: brian@idealschools.co.uk

Tel: 0800 028 1404 or 0141 248 5200

Ideal Schools - BKN Training Provider of the Year 2011, 2012 & 2013

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Master Book-keeper

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Brian McVean wrote:
Leger wrote:
Brian McVean wrote:

Interesting point to note is that the current BKN Most Innovative Accounting Firm offers bookkeeping & taxation services, including the YE submissions for sole traders, partnerships & micro entities under FRS105. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that he's doing rather well and providing a first class service. He's also fully trained and qualified under the umbrella of ICB. Many could take inspiration from what he's achieved.


Not sure what your point is there Brian. I also offer the same and am qualified by experience. I was runner up last year.

The current Bookkeeper of the Year for the last 3 years is also QBE, probably with a wealth of knowledge that surpasses the training provided by ICB and AIB.


I've PM'd you John, but just to clarify, the above was to highlight the fact that ICB qualifications go far beyond TB and this was recognised via the BKN Awards. In no way was this meant to detract from any award or professional achievements by any forum contributor.


My apologies Brian, I completely misunderstood your post.



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John

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Brian McVean wrote:

Shaun, going by your logic, under the heading of a bookkeepers network, this forum should discuss nothing more advanced than Trial Balance. However, I see headings for payroll, taxation, etc. Of course I don't think BKN should have that restriction and neither should ICB or IAB. Anyone who has looked at the ICB syllabus, or completed their exams knows how comprehensive the coverage and testing is. Interesting point to note is that the current BKN Most Innovative Accounting Firm offers bookkeeping & taxation services, including the YE submissions for sole traders, partnerships & micro entities under FRS105. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that he's doing rather well and providing a first class service. He's also fully trained and qualified under the umbrella of ICB. Many could take inspiration from what he's achieved.


The FRC's view of what ICB bookkeepers do :

"Our meetings with bookkeepers were with members of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers (ICB) who run their own public practices. These individuals may well not be representative of most bookkeepers; for example, local newspaper advertisements for bookkeepers are more likely to ask for experience in a particular accounting software package than a formal bookkeeping qualification. Members of the ICB typically prepare the accounts for their clients to a trial balance stage and then pass the information to a professional accountant to compile the statutory accounts".

I'm all for any professional body that makes better bookkeepers.

If bookkeepers want to be accountants then I'm all for competition... But they need to be trained as accountants, and do CPD as accountants, be recognised as accountants by the FRC, and be expected to gain experience before letters.... And that all takes time and money.

As for the site, it makes no claimes to be restrictive as to what body one belongs to. It is geared towards anyone, of any professional body working as a bookkeeper in some part of their professional capacity. The ICB and IAB on the other hand makes clear that they are organisations of and for bookkeepers and bookkeeping alone... and that stops at trial balance... They cannot create a niche market whilst also attempting to be the same as all other bodies.

No comment at all about the most innovative firm. They are, and remain, unknown to anyone I know ofon here and have shown the site no evidence of innovation unlike people such as Marks, or Ian Brown, or Donna, or many others I can think of over the years... I note that they are Ideal trained so I assume that they were nominated by yourselves? Well done to them for winning. But not exactly something that I would cling to in a debate over where a bookkeeping professional bodies expertise stops (which is trial balance).

Shaun.



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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



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Brian McVean wrote:

Hi Lisa, of course, your time and budget requirements must be a main consideration. Whether you self study via textbook or take a structured, supported course, you have to weigh up your own investment against the possible revenue streams available later.


no getting the right qualifications is the main consideration.

Yes 'weigh up your own investment against possible income streams' so invest little, earn little.



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